Topics

Teak Cap Rail


Luke Vickery
 

Hello Rick - I’d love a burgee as well.  Let me know if the one is still available or once you’ve replenished your stock.

Luke Vickery
“Easy Fix” 
30’ Nomad
Channel Islands Harbor, California


On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 2:04 PM Rick E <rick@...> wrote:

Hi Les - I currently have only 1 Willard burgee left.  I ask for a $50 donation to the Willard Owners Group (WOG), and then just make your request to info@....  I will be ordering more, so for any additional orders please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery.




Info about WOG, including an image of the burgee is at https://willardboats.org/join-wog .It’s a high quality marine grade burgee, suitable for 30 to 40’ Willards.

I also have two Willard baseball caps available, $25 each. Again, you can use the WOG donation form at 
https://willardboats.org/donate-wog 

Donations support the WOG website, WOG Rendezvous (if we’re ever able to have them again!), and if funds are still available, will be contributed to support this WBO list.

Thanks,
Rick E., willardboats.org




--
Rick E., Vega Nomad "Sunshine"
willardboats.org










dpstainsby Stainsby
 

Hi, Pam and I are the new owners of Loon A Sea, formerly Patito and Poco a Poco a 1991 Willard Pilot House 40. We are the former owners of Foley's Fault a 36 sedan.

Does anybody know how the connection, under the teak cap rail,  between the hull  and deck is achieved. The reason I would like to know is I am in the process of trying to refinish the cap rails and if the connection is fibre glassed and sealed I will only caulk the outside of the cap rail/hull seam.  My reasoning for this is;  the cap rails have had a lot of sanding done to them over time and some screws are exposed and the caulking at the joints between sections of cap rail is looking in poor condition so I think I should expect leaks even though I haven't ween any evidence of them. The boat hasn't gotten wet though since we have had her.  I don't have time, right now to properly re fasten the cap rails and deal with the end seams on the teak.  I don't want water leaking into the hull but if the joint between hull and deck is water tight and fibre glassed then I think it would make sense to allow any water that gets through the teak to drain out on the inwale side of hull /deck joint instead of being trapped under the teak and causing trouble with the new varnish.

If anybody has any thoughts they would be appreciated.

Thanks, Dick Stainsby


On 2020-08-15 2:04 p.m., Rick E wrote:

Hi Les - I currently have only 1 Willard burgee left.  I ask for a $50 donation to the Willard Owners Group (WOG), and then just make your request to info@....  I will be ordering more, so for any additional orders please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery.


Info about WOG, including an image of the burgee is at https://willardboats.org/join-wog .It’s a high quality marine grade burgee, suitable for 30 to 40’ Willards.

I also have two Willard baseball caps available, $25 each. Again, you can use the WOG donation form at 
https://willardboats.org/donate-wog 

Donations support the WOG website, WOG Rendezvous (if we’re ever able to have them again!), and if funds are still available, will be contributed to support this WBO list.

Thanks,
Rick E., willardboats.org


--
Rick E., Vega Nomad "Sunshine"
willardboats.org


Sven
 

Hi Dick & Pam,  congratulations on now owning the former Poco a Poco ! 

We tried to buy her while we were in Sweden but the owners didn't want to have her shown upon our return to the US without them present ... and then they changed their minds ... and then we couldn't stop by her yard due to travel issues ... and then she was sold ... or maybe not ... but we found our dreamboat;  LAGOM !  We loved everything about Poco a Poco so it is great that she has new appreciative owners.

We've held off on answering your caprail question because we are not sure we have solved the problem on LAGOM yet.

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 03:02 PM, dpstainsby Stainsby wrote:

Does anybody know how the connection, under the teak cap rail,  between the hull  and deck is achieved. The reason I would like to know is I am in the process of trying to refinish the cap rails and if the connection is fibre glassed and sealed I will only caulk the outside of the cap rail/hull seam.  My reasoning for this is;  the cap rails have had a lot of sanding done to them over time and some screws are exposed and the caulking at the joints between sections of cap rail is looking in poor condition so I think I should expect leaks even though I haven't ween any evidence of them. The boat hasn't gotten wet though since we have had her.  I don't have time, right now to properly re fasten the cap rails and deal with the end seams on the teak.  I don't want water leaking into the hull but if the joint between hull and deck is water tight and fibre glassed then I think it would make sense to allow any water that gets through the teak to drain out on the inwale side of hull /deck joint instead of being trapped under the teak and causing trouble with the new varnish.


As noted by others,  'helpful' dockhands using lifeline stanchions as if they were 'boat handles' is the bane of hull-to-deck joints and cored decks and caprails.  We got so desperate to solve the problem that we had a friend who does commercial graphics design a plastic sign that we planned to hang every few feet on the lifelines of our sloop when coming into new marinas on our way down the Pacific Central American coast.



Then we found LAGOM back in California and paid our sloop forward in Florida.

And ... wait for it ... LAGOM has caprail leaks !  No kidding !!

While trying to track down the leaks we actually wrapped all the caprails in plastic drop cloths about a year ago to try to track down the leaks.  We still had leaks,  obviously our plastic tarps had gaps and the water (in small quantities) was getting in.

We sealed the caprails with coats of Smiths.  We took out ALL the old lifeline stanchions as we were replacing them with completely new stanchions,  stanchion bases and SS rails.  We sealed the caprails with clear Cetol,  several coats.  We still had leaks.

We got an iPhone borescope camera to try to figure out where the water was coming in.  Yes,  it was coming in at the penetrating screws,  but how was it getting to them ?

We resealed the caprail outside and inside edges with new sealant after scraping out the old stuff.  We still had drips.

At this point it is pretty clear that the water that is still getting in is wicking through capillary action from minor cracks way away from where we see the actual drips.  The primary suspects are the joints in the caprail so we are attacking them.  Were tempted to just fill those joints with some epoxy or wood,  but that will be fruitless as the joints need to flex with the boat,  that's how they developed leaks to start with.

Our leaks are now mere minor drips but we are still trying to chase down the last of them.

If we didn't have to lift all the fittings off the caprail to glass it over we would,  but we are too busy trying to actually use LAGOM !

At this point our minor drips are acceptable !



-Sven & Nancy


dpstainsby Stainsby
 

Hi Sven and Nancy,

Thanks for the congratulations and all the valuable information. Would love to see your boat and how similar it is to ours. Very I expect. As I mentioned I haven't seen any evidence of water intrusion but the weather has been mostly dry while we have had our new boat. I did manage to get a couple of pictures of a small area inside the gunwales where we have a vent as you go up the stairs to the side decks from the cockpit. It all looked thoroughly fibre glassed but that might have been only because it was under the rear most stanchions and they might have glassed in a backing plate. The screws that poked through looked liked there was bedding compound or maybe epoxy of some sort that sealed their holes.

I am very interested in how your new railings worked out. Pam and I have an Australian Shepherd and a Border Collie cross, (not exactly perfect boating dogs), and we have been discussing putting on railings and netting instead of the life lines to try our best to keep them safe. Perhaps horizontal mid rails instead of netting.

It would be nice to put in new cap rails at the same time put I think the price of teak is probably prohibitive and I'm not sure the quality is there anymore, so I will probably, (when time permits),  scarf in pieces that are bad and try to set the exposed or nearly exposed screws deeper and re-plug them.

I'm also thinking that where the caulking looks very questionable at the end joints of the teak, I will make a template to enable me to rout out  the joint to a little under 1/4 inch wide by maybe I/2 inch deep. Ours is only about a 1/16 inch wide. Too narrow I think to make a properly sealed joint to allow for movement. The existing joint also seems to tight to be able to clean out properly, My main concern would be the end grain of the teak splintering. I don't believe I would have to go all the way through the cap rails to achieve a good seal.

My biggest frustration with varnishing the cap rails is finding a weather window without rain, dew, too much heat or direct sunshine. I never truly appreciated how lucky I was when I was allowed  to put our last boat in a closed shop for free while I did this work.

Stay well, Dick and Pam

 



On 2020-08-19 6:51 p.m., Sven wrote:
Hi Dick & Pam,  congratulations on now owning the former Poco a Poco ! 

We tried to buy her while we were in Sweden but the owners didn't want to have her shown upon our return to the US without them present ... and then they changed their minds ... and then we couldn't stop by her yard due to travel issues ... and then she was sold ... or maybe not ... but we found our dreamboat;  LAGOM !  We loved everything about Poco a Poco so it is great that she has new appreciative owners.

We've held off on answering your caprail question because we are not sure we have solved the problem on LAGOM yet.

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 03:02 PM, dpstainsby Stainsby wrote:

Does anybody know how the connection, under the teak cap rail,  between the hull  and deck is achieved. The reason I would like to know is I am in the process of trying to refinish the cap rails and if the connection is fibre glassed and sealed I will only caulk the outside of the cap rail/hull seam.  My reasoning for this is;  the cap rails have had a lot of sanding done to them over time and some screws are exposed and the caulking at the joints between sections of cap rail is looking in poor condition so I think I should expect leaks even though I haven't ween any evidence of them. The boat hasn't gotten wet though since we have had her.  I don't have time, right now to properly re fasten the cap rails and deal with the end seams on the teak.  I don't want water leaking into the hull but if the joint between hull and deck is water tight and fibre glassed then I think it would make sense to allow any water that gets through the teak to drain out on the inwale side of hull /deck joint instead of being trapped under the teak and causing trouble with the new varnish.


As noted by others,  'helpful' dockhands using lifeline stanchions as if they were 'boat handles' is the bane of hull-to-deck joints and cored decks and caprails.  We got so desperate to solve the problem that we had a friend who does commercial graphics design a plastic sign that we planned to hang every few feet on the lifelines of our sloop when coming into new marinas on our way down the Pacific Central American coast.



Then we found LAGOM back in California and paid our sloop forward in Florida.

And ... wait for it ... LAGOM has caprail leaks !  No kidding !!

While trying to track down the leaks we actually wrapped all the caprails in plastic drop cloths about a year ago to try to track down the leaks.  We still had leaks,  obviously our plastic tarps had gaps and the water (in small quantities) was getting in.

We sealed the caprails with coats of Smiths.  We took out ALL the old lifeline stanchions as we were replacing them with completely new stanchions,  stanchion bases and SS rails.  We sealed the caprails with clear Cetol,  several coats.  We still had leaks.

We got an iPhone borescope camera to try to figure out where the water was coming in.  Yes,  it was coming in at the penetrating screws,  but how was it getting to them ?

We resealed the caprail outside and inside edges with new sealant after scraping out the old stuff.  We still had drips.

At this point it is pretty clear that the water that is still getting in is wicking through capillary action from minor cracks way away from where we see the actual drips.  The primary suspects are the joints in the caprail so we are attacking them.  Were tempted to just fill those joints with some epoxy or wood,  but that will be fruitless as the joints need to flex with the boat,  that's how they developed leaks to start with.

Our leaks are now mere minor drips but we are still trying to chase down the last of them.

If we didn't have to lift all the fittings off the caprail to glass it over we would,  but we are too busy trying to actually use LAGOM !

At this point our minor drips are acceptable !



-Sven & Nancy


Dan McNames
 

I am glad to see the PH40 is still around.  I know a bit about that PH40.  One of the former owners of "MANIA" were Chris and Darlene Buckley, friends of mine since 1970 so that makes it what 50 years and also former business partner of mine.  Chris was a marine mechanic as well as a geologist who used to race what was called cracker box outboards.  One day he decided to build a sailboat, ferrocement I recall about 1976, under the oak trees behind his rural house.  We laughed but helped source out scrap for this disaster in the making.  Well it actually floated and well enough that Chris and Darlene sold their house and took to sea.  Eventually after several years sailed around the world TWICE in it.  By then Chris asked me what I thought about his looking for a trawler hull ( keeping the sailboat ) and naturally with my Dad having been at Willard, I suggested a Willard 40.  So the two of us set out to beat the brush and found this PH40.  Very nice boat but we were both puzzled and surprised to see it had a V8 International diesel engine in it. ? ?  I know that engine because I have a 1 ton Ford van with the identical engine in it I use for a tow vehicle, boats, horses, cars and the such.  Runs good in a van but does not like to idle long time and is prone to developing cracks in the back of the block.  Near impossible to repair, ask me how I know - - .  But Chris and I figured run it and see how it goes.  No problems.  So Chris decides he wants to take it to New Zealand and insists he being a global sailor is not going to put it on a cargo ship.  Nope, not possible, fuel, range and such.  Patrick suggested putting a kite sail on the front, as long as you are at sea, the kite stays up.  NOPE, still no good.  As a result it stayed here in California, their daughter a Marine Biologist used it for a while, here till life changes and Chris and Darlene decided to sell.  They offered it to me but I am already boat poor, two here and two in the Philippines none of which get justifiable usage.  So it moved on to other owners.

None of this is particular important but being the new owners you might find it a bit interesting.

Dan McN

BTW 40's do have a cape rail issue, did back when new but that is another story.


dpstainsby Stainsby
 

Hi Dan, Thanks for the interesting information. Pam and I met Chris and Darlene at the 2015 rendezvous. They are very nice people and we exchanged a few emails with Darlene before buying the boat. We also are leary of the V-8 and have put very few hours on it so far but it runs quietly with very little smoke except immediately after start up. It is hard starting and we will investigate the glow plugs to try and remedy that. We have spent just about all our time since taking ownership trying to fix her up after sitting for more than two years. We now call her "Loon a Sea". We love the raised pilot house and the quiet running and hope to start using her more soon. Do you care to elaborate about cracks in the block?

Dick and Pam Stainsby

Loon a Sea

Willard 40 Pilot House


On 2020-09-18 12:51 a.m., Dan McNames wrote:
I am glad to see the PH40 is still around.  I know a bit about that PH40.  One of the former owners of "MANIA" were Chris and Darlene Buckley, friends of mine since 1970 so that makes it what 50 years and also former business partner of mine.  Chris was a marine mechanic as well as a geologist who used to race what was called cracker box outboards.  One day he decided to build a sailboat, ferrocement I recall about 1976, under the oak trees behind his rural house.  We laughed but helped source out scrap for this disaster in the making.  Well it actually floated and well enough that Chris and Darlene sold their house and took to sea.  Eventually after several years sailed around the world TWICE in it.  By then Chris asked me what I thought about his looking for a trawler hull ( keeping the sailboat ) and naturally with my Dad having been at Willard, I suggested a Willard 40.  So the two of us set out to beat the brush and found this PH40.  Very nice boat but we were both puzzled and surprised to see it had a V8 International diesel engine in it. ? ?  I know that engine because I have a 1 ton Ford van with the identical engine in it I use for a tow vehicle, boats, horses, cars and the such.  Runs good in a van but does not like to idle long time and is prone to developing cracks in the back of the block.  Near impossible to repair, ask me how I know - - .  But Chris and I figured run it and see how it goes.  No problems.  So Chris decides he wants to take it to New Zealand and insists he being a global sailor is not going to put it on a cargo ship.  Nope, not possible, fuel, range and such.  Patrick suggested putting a kite sail on the front, as long as you are at sea, the kite stays up.  NOPE, still no good.  As a result it stayed here in California, their daughter a Marine Biologist used it for a while, here till life changes and Chris and Darlene decided to sell.  They offered it to me but I am already boat poor, two here and two in the Philippines none of which get justifiable usage.  So it moved on to other owners.

None of this is particular important but being the new owners you might find it a bit interesting.

Dan McN

BTW 40's do have a cape rail issue, did back when new but that is another story.


Ron Rogers
 

There are wonderful stories. It is amazing that the V-8 is willing to run long and slow. I assume that the smoke is the buildup left from the previous session of slow running. The direction for suitable diesels in other boats suggests running engines at top rpm for an hour during a 4 to 8 hour day of steady running at cruising speed. Even true for tugboats.

My caprailonly leaked where the stanchion through-bolts penetrated through the interior fiberglass. Replacing the bedding for the bolts cured the problem.

Enjoy her,
Ron Rogers
W40 FBS

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 12:06 PM dpstainsby Stainsby <dpstainsby@...> wrote:

Hi Dan, Thanks for the interesting information. Pam and I met Chris and Darlene at the 2015 rendezvous. They are very nice people and we exchanged a few emails with Darlene before buying the boat. We also are leary of the V-8 and have put very few hours on it so far but it runs quietly with very little smoke except immediately after start up. It is hard starting and we will investigate the glow plugs to try and remedy that. We have spent just about all our time since taking ownership trying to fix her up after sitting for more than two years. We now call her "Loon a Sea". We love the raised pilot house and the quiet running and hope to start using her more soon. Do you care to elaborate about cracks in the block?

Dick and Pam Stainsby

Loon a Sea

Willard 40 Pilot House


On 2020-09-18 12:51 a.m., Dan McNames wrote:
I am glad to see the PH40 is still around.  I know a bit about that PH40.  One of the former owners of "MANIA" were Chris and Darlene Buckley, friends of mine since 1970 so that makes it what 50 years and also former business partner of mine.  Chris was a marine mechanic as well as a geologist who used to race what was called cracker box outboards.  One day he decided to build a sailboat, ferrocement I recall about 1976, under the oak trees behind his rural house.  We laughed but helped source out scrap for this disaster in the making.  Well it actually floated and well enough that Chris and Darlene sold their house and took to sea.  Eventually after several years sailed around the world TWICE in it.  By then Chris asked me what I thought about his looking for a trawler hull ( keeping the sailboat ) and naturally with my Dad having been at Willard, I suggested a Willard 40.  So the two of us set out to beat the brush and found this PH40.  Very nice boat but we were both puzzled and surprised to see it had a V8 International diesel engine in it. ? ?  I know that engine because I have a 1 ton Ford van with the identical engine in it I use for a tow vehicle, boats, horses, cars and the such.  Runs good in a van but does not like to idle long time and is prone to developing cracks in the back of the block.  Near impossible to repair, ask me how I know - - .  But Chris and I figured run it and see how it goes.  No problems.  So Chris decides he wants to take it to New Zealand and insists he being a global sailor is not going to put it on a cargo ship.  Nope, not possible, fuel, range and such.  Patrick suggested putting a kite sail on the front, as long as you are at sea, the kite stays up.  NOPE, still no good.  As a result it stayed here in California, their daughter a Marine Biologist used it for a while, here till life changes and Chris and Darlene decided to sell.  They offered it to me but I am already boat poor, two here and two in the Philippines none of which get justifiable usage.  So it moved on to other owners.

None of this is particular important but being the new owners you might find it a bit interesting.

Dan McN

BTW 40's do have a cape rail issue, did back when new but that is another story.