Topics

Rudder bearing replacing the upper bearing on a 30’ Vega hull


Les Higgins
 

Can you service the upper bearing without hauling the boat out of the water? It appears access is available by removing the cockpit seat surround and a fiberglass structure over the gimble, then there is a plate bolted to the rear deck. The rudder is enclosed with a full fiberglass tube from the cockpit deck thru the hull and the plate is above the water line. Is this possible?
The symptoms seems to be a knock underway, at the upper part of the shaft, by placing a hand on the top of the gimble is is felt and heard intermittently.
Les
Molly Dog
1973 Searcher
Stockton, Ca.
Photo, 9-13, San Joaquin River, Tiki Lagoon Resort..Smokey dayz!


--
Les H.

1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca


Pease, Dan
 

If your cockpit is the same configuration as a Horizon, I'll share how I re-built mine.


On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 20:27 Les Higgins via groups.io <almonhiggins=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Can you service the upper bearing without hauling the boat out of the water? It appears access is available by removing the cockpit seat surround and a fiberglass structure over the gimble, then there is a plate bolted to the rear deck. The rudder is enclosed with a full fiberglass tube from the cockpit deck thru the hull and the plate is above the water line.  Is this possible?
The symptoms seems to be a knock underway, at the upper part of the shaft, by placing a hand on the top of the gimble is is felt and heard intermittently.
Les
Molly Dog
1973 Searcher
Stockton, Ca.
Photo, 9-13, San Joaquin River, Tiki Lagoon Resort..Smokey dayz!


--
Les H.

1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca




Les Higgins
 

It is the same set up without the hatch. I will have to remove the bench seat which is no big deal. Do you have a photo of what under the top plate? 
Les 


On Sep 17, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Pease, Dan <capt.revere@...> wrote:


If your cockpit is the same configuration as a Horizon, I'll share how I re-built mine.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 20:27 Les Higgins via groups.io <almonhiggins=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Can you service the upper bearing without hauling the boat out of the water? It appears access is available by removing the cockpit seat surround and a fiberglass structure over the gimble, then there is a plate bolted to the rear deck. The rudder is enclosed with a full fiberglass tube from the cockpit deck thru the hull and the plate is above the water line.  Is this possible?
The symptoms seems to be a knock underway, at the upper part of the shaft, by placing a hand on the top of the gimble is is felt and heard intermittently.
Les
Molly Dog
1973 Searcher
Stockton, Ca.
Photo, 9-13, San Joaquin River, Tiki Lagoon Resort..Smokey dayz!


--
Les H.

1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca



<IMG_20200917_205442.jpg>

--
Les H.

1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca 


Pease, Dan
 

Okay, here is the deal as best I can remember.

The fiberglass tube did not connect to the cockpit sole.  Very dangerous.

Second, forget about another Dodge bearing, at least that’s what I think it was, newsflash, they rust!

So I cut out a hole around where the original bearing was because it was water damaged, wet and rotted.  In there I believe I glued a piece of uhmw or hdpe that I tapped to fit a bronze nipple of a size that fit loosely over the rudder post.  That plastic piece had to be approximately the thickness of the original deck, no thicker.
Let me back up a bit.
So to attach the nipple to the original glass tube I chose a Fernco rubber  sleeve. The sleeve goes on first, then the block with nipple is carefully glued in.  The alignment of the nipple only has to be close, not perfect as it is larger than the rudder post.  The fernco takes up any discrepancies and you are now water tight to the self draining cockpit sole.
Now the bearing.  As you see in the enclosed pics, the bearing is also hdpe, maybe 1.5 inches thick.  This should be carefully drilled to get the proper angle.  Once that is fit and glued down, I made a sandwich of this whole contraption thru bolting it with bronze plates top and bottom.  The bottom plate had to be split since the rudder never came out.

I would stress that the seat does not need to be removed and highly recommend cutting an access hole as shown, not only so you can actually get two hands in there to work on the steering, but also because I found the original equipment? Emergency tiller completely useless as a practical matter.
Anyway, my new emergency tiller is used thru that obloid egloid access hole I cut just ahead of the rudder post.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:21 PM Les Higgins via groups.io <almonhiggins=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
It is the same set up without the hatch. I will have to remove the bench seat which is no big deal. Do you have a photo of what under the top plate? 
Les 


On Sep 17, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Pease, Dan <capt.revere@...> wrote:


If your cockpit is the same configuration as a Horizon, I'll share how I re-built mine.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 20:27 Les Higgins via groups.io <almonhiggins=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Can you service the upper bearing without hauling the boat out of the water? It appears access is available by removing the cockpit seat surround and a fiberglass structure over the gimble, then there is a plate bolted to the rear deck. The rudder is enclosed with a full fiberglass tube from the cockpit deck thru the hull and the plate is above the water line.  Is this possible?


The symptoms seems to be a knock underway, at the upper part of the shaft, by placing a hand on the top of the gimble is is felt and heard intermittently.


Les


Molly Dog


1973 Searcher


Stockton, Ca.


Photo, 9-13, San Joaquin River, Tiki Lagoon Resort..Smokey dayz!








--


Les H.





1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca





















<IMG_20200917_205442.jpg>

--
Les H.

1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca 












Les Higgins
 

Thanks Dan, this gives me an idea of what may lie ahead. I really did not think it was such a minimalist design, but I suppose the simple basic design is better. I think the fiberglass tube is intact connecting to the deck, but we shall see. I suppose in any case, the lack of a roller - bearing bushing set up means that any type of bushing be it hdpe or some other material, would pose a reoccurring wear / repair over time. Although after many years I hope. I will take pics and upload for reference.
Additionally, my seat has no access for an emergency tiller the top hatch access is perfect for a manual steering attachment device.  

Thanks again, this forum has proven invaluable yet again!

Les



On Sep 18, 2020, at 05:34, Pease, Dan <capt.revere@...> wrote:


<IMG_20200917_205619_Original.jpg> 
<IMG_20200917_205507_Original.jpg>
<IMG_20200917_205442_Original.jpg>
Okay, here is the deal as best I can remember.

The fiberglass tube did not connect to the cockpit sole.  Very dangerous.

Second, forget about another Dodge bearing, at least that’s what I think it was, newsflash, they rust!

So I cut out a hole around where the original bearing was because it was water damaged, wet and rotted.  In there I believe I glued a piece of uhmw or hdpe that I tapped to fit a bronze nipple of a size that fit loosely over the rudder post.  That plastic piece had to be approximately the thickness of the original deck, no thicker.
Let me back up a bit.
So to attach the nipple to the original glass tube I chose a Fernco rubber  sleeve. The sleeve goes on first, then the block with nipple is carefully glued in.  The alignment of the nipple only has to be close, not perfect as it is larger than the rudder post.  The fernco takes up any discrepancies and you are now water tight to the self draining cockpit sole.
Now the bearing.  As you see in the enclosed pics, the bearing is also hdpe, maybe 1.5 inches thick.  This should be carefully drilled to get the proper angle.  Once that is fit and glued down, I made a sandwich of this whole contraption thru bolting it with bronze plates top and bottom.  The bottom plate had to be split since the rudder never came out.

I would stress that the seat does not need to be removed and highly recommend cutting an access hole as shown, not only so you can actually get two hands in there to work on the steering, but also because I found the original equipment? Emergency tiller completely useless as a practical matter.
Anyway, my new emergency tiller is used thru that obloid egloid access hole I cut just ahead of the rudder post.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:21 PM Les Higgins via groups.io <almonhiggins=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
It is the same set up without the hatch. I will have to remove the bench seat which is no big deal. Do you have a photo of what under the top plate? 
Les 


On Sep 17, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Pease, Dan <capt.revere@...> wrote:


If your cockpit is the same configuration as a Horizon, I'll share how I re-built mine.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 20:27 Les Higgins via groups.io <almonhiggins=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Can you service the upper bearing without hauling the boat out of the water? It appears access is available by removing the cockpit seat surround and a fiberglass structure over the gimble, then there is a plate bolted to the rear deck. The rudder is enclosed with a full fiberglass tube from the cockpit deck thru the hull and the plate is above the water line.  Is this possible?


The symptoms seems to be a knock underway, at the upper part of the shaft, by placing a hand on the top of the gimble is is felt and heard intermittently.


Les


Molly Dog


1973 Searcher


Stockton, Ca.


Photo, 9-13, San Joaquin River, Tiki Lagoon Resort..Smokey dayz!








--


Les H.





1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca





















<IMG_20200917_205442.jpg>

--
Les H.

1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca 












--
Les H.

1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca 


Pease, Dan
 

Auxiliary steering tiller, foot operated.

Also showing other access hole for reaching fixed end of steering ram.

Unconscienceable  to have built this with no immediate access available.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 20:27 Les Higgins via groups.io <almonhiggins=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Can you service the upper bearing without hauling the boat out of the water? It appears access is available by removing the cockpit seat surround and a fiberglass structure over the gimble, then there is a plate bolted to the rear deck. The rudder is enclosed with a full fiberglass tube from the cockpit deck thru the hull and the plate is above the water line.  Is this possible?
The symptoms seems to be a knock underway, at the upper part of the shaft, by placing a hand on the top of the gimble is is felt and heard intermittently.
Les
Molly Dog
1973 Searcher
Stockton, Ca.
Photo, 9-13, San Joaquin River, Tiki Lagoon Resort..Smokey dayz!


--
Les H.

1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca




Les Higgins
 

I agree some of the simple necessary design elements you would expect to see are a continued mystery. But that’s what makes old boat partnering such a unique challenge. Thanks again for the info..
Les


On Sep 18, 2020, at 09:31, Pease, Dan <capt.revere@...> wrote:


Auxiliary steering tiller, foot operated.

Also showing other access hole for reaching fixed end of steering ram.

Unconscienceable  to have built this with no immediate access available.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 20:27 Les Higgins via groups.io <almonhiggins=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Can you service the upper bearing without hauling the boat out of the water? It appears access is available by removing the cockpit seat surround and a fiberglass structure over the gimble, then there is a plate bolted to the rear deck. The rudder is enclosed with a full fiberglass tube from the cockpit deck thru the hull and the plate is above the water line.  Is this possible?
The symptoms seems to be a knock underway, at the upper part of the shaft, by placing a hand on the top of the gimble is is felt and heard intermittently.
Les
Molly Dog
1973 Searcher
Stockton, Ca.
Photo, 9-13, San Joaquin River, Tiki Lagoon Resort..Smokey dayz!


--
Les H.

1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca



<IMG_20200918_102415.jpg>

--
Les H.

1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca 


chris gibbs
 

sorry. laughing my butt off at 'foot operated tiller'

I'm in a wheelchair and I can't walk! maybe I can get my lab to use his tail or something to run the tiller! hahaha

On 2020-09-18 10:29, Pease, Dan wrote:
Auxiliary steering tiller, foot operated.
Also showing other access hole for reaching fixed end of steering ram.
Unconscienceable to have built this with no immediate access
available.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 20:27 Les Higgins via groups.io [1]
<almonhiggins=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

Can you service the upper bearing without hauling the boat out of
the water? It appears access is available by removing the cockpit
seat surround and a fiberglass structure over the gimble, then there
is a plate bolted to the rear deck. The rudder is enclosed with a
full fiberglass tube from the cockpit deck thru the hull and the
plate is above the water line. Is this possible?
The symptoms seems to be a knock underway, at the upper part of the
shaft, by placing a hand on the top of the gimble is is felt and
heard intermittently.
Les
Molly Dog
1973 Searcher
Stockton, Ca.
Photo, 9-13, San Joaquin River, Tiki Lagoon Resort..Smokey dayz!
--
Les H.
1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca
Links:
------
[1] http://groups.io
[2] https://WillardBoatOwners.groups.io/g/main/message/18158
[3] https://groups.io/mt/76855630/2270402
[4] https://WillardBoatOwners.groups.io/g/main/post
[5] https://WillardBoatOwners.groups.io/g/main/editsub/2270402
[6] https://WillardBoatOwners.groups.io/g/main/leave/defanged


Pease, Dan
 

Absolutely. What fun would it be if we couldn't improve things.
BTW, this rudder bearing has a lot of miles on it. 
Down East circle and Maine to Bahamas and back.

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 15:29 Les Higgins via groups.io <almonhiggins=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
I agree some of the simple necessary design elements you would expect to see are a continued mystery. But that’s what makes old boat partnering such a unique challenge. Thanks again for the info..
Les


On Sep 18, 2020, at 09:31, Pease, Dan <capt.revere@...> wrote:


Auxiliary steering tiller, foot operated.

Also showing other access hole for reaching fixed end of steering ram.

Unconscienceable  to have built this with no immediate access available.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 20:27 Les Higgins via groups.io <almonhiggins=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Can you service the upper bearing without hauling the boat out of the water? It appears access is available by removing the cockpit seat surround and a fiberglass structure over the gimble, then there is a plate bolted to the rear deck. The rudder is enclosed with a full fiberglass tube from the cockpit deck thru the hull and the plate is above the water line.  Is this possible?
The symptoms seems to be a knock underway, at the upper part of the shaft, by placing a hand on the top of the gimble is is felt and heard intermittently.
Les
Molly Dog
1973 Searcher
Stockton, Ca.
Photo, 9-13, San Joaquin River, Tiki Lagoon Resort..Smokey dayz!


--
Les H.

1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca



<IMG_20200918_102415.jpg>

--
Les H.

1973 Searcher, Molly Dog, Stockton,Ca